- Maeda
- I want to talk about the notion of what is a tool.
This was sparked by a review from DCGS of one of my students. They
said that if you are creating a tool it must be usable by others.
Kai Krause - his tools are great...
Scott Snibbe was involved in After Effects, what do you think.
- Snibbe
-
Its worth the comprimise of your personal aesthetics to make a tool
that can be used by others.
Tons of code not used: computational dependency between elements
that did not fit the GUI.
I wasn't completely confortable, but was worth it hearing the
praise from others.
- Maeda
- Sort of a Design for humanity
- Snibbe
-
I left adobe after two years to work on much more selfish design
at interval.
Different because after effects generally liked, Kai is loved and hated. A lot
of Kai's person in the tool.
- Grenby
- Bryce is a good program. Fun tool. Good for creating worlds.
Not because of the interface, but the functionality.
- Unknown
- But a lot of Bryce in the final designs by any person using it?
- Golan
- Bryce vs. Clarinet analogy. Tools, toys, and instruments.
Making something that is yours within constraints of tool.
- Snibbe
- Marketing means somethings must die to sell 10,000,000.
- Interval
- With the Kai stuff: I don't necessarily like the interface, but I respected it because Kai didn't
use the same vanilla interface.
- Maeda
-
This is an issue because - it is hard to get a job if you are good at developing
technology. Like myself or Scott Snibbe.
- Snibbe
- It's not hard to get a job, it's hard to be a premadonna.
- Maeda
-
When part of a larger entity, it is hard to assert yourself.
But some people do enjoy making tools.
- Snibbe
- You only realize after the fact the good feeling when people use
your tools.
- Redin
- I make tools for myself. Right when I need to get a job done.
- Maeda
- Most of us are able to create in a language. We make abstractions like libraries
and tools to get to a goal. But if you don't have a goal, that process
doesn't work very well.
Let's say, for example, a photoshop tool. you can make many tools, but if you
don't have a dying need to make the tool yourself or it will be
meidocre. If I am hired to make a rain filter, my heart won't be in it.
- Inge
- Why is that different?
- Maeda
- It's not the same! It depends what you want to do in life.
- Rosenberger
- I think that we are discussing liking what it is that you do. Anyone
who has a job they don't like, won't do a good job. Your heart wasn't
in it.
- Maeda
-
Ahh, having the heart. Having the will. This is something you are
not taught in school, at MIT. You are prepared for intellectual tag. But
you are not taught the issue of expression. Its about yourself. How
about you Fernanda?
- Viegas
- I am coming from a graphic design background. You have to look at it from
both ends, your heart must be in it. But if no one can relate to it at all, I was not successful.
It is important to look at both sides. It is important to communicate.
- Maeda
- OK. You are talking about being a professional, responsible designer.
- Viegas
- Well, if no one understands the message...
- Endter
- It has to be a two way process. The solitary process is not that useful.
- Maeda
- (Tools vs end process) Chloe?
- Chao
- No comment... (after more prodding from maeda) I don't think there is a clear definition of
tool.
- Maeda
- (stops kram from starting new discussion) Before we start something new:
We have the tool. It takes X as input, The tool f(x) produces y. It is the outcome.
Chloe was touching on the possibility that Y is changing even when X is constant. The machine
serves up all kinds of things. An interactive system. An infinitely changing
system. When the model of tool is different... Chloe talked about the
enbodiment of process. It is a means. If you make a road through the jungle,
other people can follow you.
- Kram
- On a computer, a tool is creating a new machine. After effects is an excellent
machine at doing video effects.
- White
- (here john asks me what a tool is, I offer Webster as a point of refrence):
tool \'tu:l\ n [ME, fr. OE to-l; akin to OE tawian to prepare for use - more]
at TAW 1a: an instrument (as a hammer) used or worked by hand :
IMPLEMENT 1b1: the cutting or shaping part in a machine or machine tool
1b2: a machine for shaping metal : MACHINE TOOL 2a: an instrument or
apparatus used in performing an operation or necessary in the practice of a
vocation or profession {a scholar's books are ~s} 2b: a means to an end 3:
one who is used or manipulated by another : DUPE
- Maeda
- The majority of people I talk to all have interests in design.
But the majority want to make tools for designers. Who here is interested
in making tools for graphic designers? (no one speaks up). Well maybe this
group is different.
- Interval
- Making tools for consumers. ...
- Maeda
- Or tools to augment people?
- Interval
- More about revealing peoples ability to express themself.
- Maeda
- Like a mirror?
- Interval
- No. More about projecting something outward from yourself, not like a mirror.
- Maeda
- But then is the expression really yours?
- Interval
- Well, I think that this is a deep philosophical question... [something about finger paint?]
- Kram
- What's wrong with finger paint! [thread dissolves]
- Grenby
- I don't not want to make a tool right now, though I have nothing against it.
- Keays
- The two are not mutually exclusive. Just a different end use. Each is an
equally valid channel of creativity.
- Rosenberger
- I've never understood the difference in meaning between craftsman and artist.
- Snibbe
- Here's an interesting perspective.
The motion phone one a prize as a work of art, but I think it
is a tool. The jury decided that if a tool imparted a new vision,
then it can be seen as a work of art. This was in 1996.
- Golan
- I have to disagree. I think motion phone is a work of art.
Systems that interact are interesting; call it a tool if you like.
A tool usually implies a goal, but the motion phone is a work of art
because it expands our ideas of art making.
- Maeda
- For those of you who don't know, motion phone is a system for sort of painting
with motion and connecting multiple people to this space.
- Rosenberger
- (to Snibbe) So why is that a tool?
- Snibbe
- It is a tool because when you arrive there is nothing there, just a blank canvas.
But then you author something that remains after you leave.
- Maeda
- [talks about Kram and Transducer, about it being a tool versus his 'performance'
with Transducer at a talk a few days ago.
- Kram
- Motion phone not a tool. It is poor at making just anything in general.
- Snibbe
- I don't think generality is a function of tool. A tool can be
as general or specific as you want it.
- Kram
- We generally think that way of tools on the computer - others to do
abstracted tasks.
- Maeda
- You could make a commercial with the motion phone.
- Kram
- It is not a great tool for that.
- Maeda
- So here's a question. Can the people that make fine vilons actually play them?
- Snibbe
- They can play the instrument well enough to test them.
- Geilfuss
- This seems to me to be an age old question. This was covered
early in the century by people like Duchamp, and they found that
it has nothing to do with tool at all. The difference between artist
and crafstman difference is intent. There
are so many ways to look at it. I'm not sure exactly why we are talking
about this.
- Maeda
- About the tool making thing [...] You can be a great tool maker. And
that's great. Or you can be a great user of the tool. And that's great.
But you can be both a great maker of the tool and a great user of the tool...
- Golem
- How about this John -- what is the opposiete of making a tool?
- Maeda
- The issue is numbers! We know what someone good at using
photoshop can do. We know what someone good at making photoshop
can do. But we don't know what a person cabably of both using
and making a tool like photoshop can do. There has not been
that much validity to this combined approach.
- Geilfuss
- (voicing dissent) For a long time graphic artics needed to
understand the process to get things done. That is what you are talking about.
But you are saying there have not been people like that.
- Maeda
- I feel that because we do not have that element, the issue
of high quality ...
- Kram
- The only people connected to the medium are making the tools.
Making tools, if done well, can be art. There are very few
programmers that express themselves. 99.5% of progrmmers are making tools.
- Maeda
- The stakes are so big now. The husband wife team in the 60s is
gone. There is now so much technology - so much to learn and so much to do.
It is hard to keep up. I think the key is that the bridging effect is very
necessary, conecting the two worlds. These things drive me crazy.
Graphic designers were very close with the process. Now you
can interact in a way that you could not before. The things we
are starting to do here rely heavily on interacti8on with the
user. You can use the computer to interact with who is looking
at your peice. We keep calling them tools, but this has a imited
meaning that we are giving these ... works. This is the firstt
time we can make the process matter.
JM: Back up. The first point, noted that the quality of printwork
has never been better with the fcomputer. Perfection of the medium
through digital technology. The new processes of digieal tech.
Interaction...
- Viegas
- About transducer. I don't think it is a tool. The beauty of
it is the interaction with it. The process of how you interact with
it is something that could not be done before. How do you know what
the high standards are? You don't. The interaction is another
variable to add.
- Maeda
- We don't understand yet.
People come to the lab wanting tools, They see everything
as a tool. That is all people know. You are saying this is more
of a work of something.
- Kram
- We've talked about this before. Giving up accountability.
If you can make something ugly with it, then it is a tool. If you are
making an environment where they can make their own kind of
creatitivy, which you can not control, this is a creative
tool. But you are always in there.
- Snibbe
- Well, I wouldn't say ugly or bad, but as giving people the ability of expressing themselves.
It is a reflection of the person that made it.
- Maeda
- So can that be masked out? [people's ability to do bad or plain things in a tool]
- Snibbe
- I don't think so. A pencil is a great example. I would love
to invent that.
- Endter
- If you make a really good tool then you have taken the point of view out
of it. If the tool is objective, people can use in all kinds of ways.
- Interval
- That notion of objectiviy is totoally defunct. A pencil is
an expression that lines should be dark and dry.
- Endter
- I mean, not that type of objectiviy. Once you launch this tool,
it can take on a live of its own. You are relinquishing control.
- Spitzer
- The way a person understands a pencil reflects how they send
out what was there before. How a person understands the technology
and dissects it.
- Endter
- Appropiate it.
- Rosenberger
- Degrees of freedom? Motion phone is used to create strokes and different people do
the same thing. But it's not extensible. All of the potentials are in the tool
itself. Photoshop has more potentials. Definition of tool has to do with
economics and the degrees of freedom.
- Interval
- A pencil is infinitely expressible.
- Maeda
- But isn't that because we are given this at age 1. We treat
it differently.
- Interval
- A pencil is miraclous is because it is expressible. I would not
give my 1 year old a die cutter. I would give him a pencil.
- Geilfuss
- I think that [the expression of individual] is a big part of it.
- Interval
- Art used to be about the composition of shapes like rectangles.
Now it is about the compisition of systems.
- Maeda
- What do you think Tom? What are you typing over there? [:-)]
- White
- [Here I look up and refocus my eyes, and digest what I have heard.
I go back to the idea of an audience and talk about the difference between
creating for a huge audience, for your friends, for yourself now, or for
yourself in 10 years. I suggest that the earlier discussion by Fernanda
was over simplified in that communicating to an audience could many many
things]
[John asks Interval for a comment on my rambling, and they admit confusion,
so I rephrase it into a distilled question for them] Do you think the idea
of an intended audience is tied up in the definition of tool or do you think
that making a tool can be done completely independent of an intended audience?
- Interval
-
I think the idea of an audience is indepent of the definition of a tool.
Not knowing who your audience is is part of the joy when your tool is
later used by others.
- Maeda
- So it's like making a toy?
- Interval
- Toys can't be twisted as much.
- Maeda
- This issue of tools. When defining yourself as creative individual,
this issue is important. This distincition will be there for years.
- Interval
- [about talking to a friend about these issues] She said that she created art for
herself, but her design was for others.
- Maeda
- Phillip?
- Tiongson
- [phillip has just come in. He starts talking about the smiling printing
man that he was visiting to get the MAS962 cards printed]
He said he had to learn quark express four.
Listening to him talk about the craft itself was savory. He is
very close to his craft. It was fun to see someone who loves to do
what he does.
- Maeda
- This issue of who is your audience. Yourself or external world?
- Interval
- Here is an interesting point coming full circle. Original computer interfaces
had strange parameters and were hard for non programmers to use. [...]
(to Maeda) You are suggesting, use your intuition...
- Maeda
- So I get a call from Inke degign from someone writing an article on
interaction design. She asks: what is it? Is it like Donald Norman?
(author of The Design of Everyday Things)
He's a clutz! He blames everything on designers. The whole notion
that designers is stupid is wrong! The whole notion that design/art
is in a state of disarray because the understanding of the medium not well
understood. Unless
designers emerge with understanding of medium, we won't see good design.
As a designer, you must ask, what is important to you. Do you want
to create for yourself? For money? You are your best audience. Tap
into the medium. Listen to it.
- Keays
- Is it possible for one person to fully understand to the medium?
This used to be possible in print. But now certain areas must be delegated
out. Is this a loss of quality?
- Maeda
- If you are fanitical, yes. If not, no. I am fanitical, so yes!
- Spitzer
- The analogy of the designer printer, the designer can learn more
about the process from the printer....
- Maeda
- Thie period might be some stange phase where technology has shot way
too far ahead...
- Keays
- I think the gap is going to get wider and wider.
It will get harder for anyone to know it all. (then in answer to
something from Maeda) I will be in a state of increasing torment.
- Maeda
- I think interval is interesting as a last stand...
- Interval
- I think you are being overly optimistic. Look at the Bauhaus and what
they did understanding form, but today we still have all
kinds of examples of bad industrial design.
- Maeda
- I think Bauhaus could not hold on to ideas. They were limited to materials
they had; they could not execute perfectly. Now, we have perfect medium. I think
that Bauhaus was an alpha version - too hard to disseminate philosphy.
There were not many algorithms that came from Bauhaus.
- Interval
- (in retort to Maeda) Do you think you are trying to teach formuls? I
don't think so. I think you are trying to teach your students intuition.
- Maeda
- Paul Rand said last week you cannot teach intuition!
But I am trying my best to teach these things.
Thanks everyone.